Leading At The Next Level
A Clear Path for Every Person
with Wes & Cindy Dove
Welcome to the Leading at the Next Level podcast with Dove Development and Consulting, the show built to provide ongoing support for your leadership journey. I'm Wes Dove. I'm here with my bride, my best friend, my business partner, Cindy Dove. If you're watching this inside our Leading at the Next Level community, good on you.
You get the video. We're sharing this one like we've la- done the last several on our Facebook and LinkedIn business pages as well, but that won't happen long term. So if you're catching it there, welcome to you. Make sure you get access to that Leading at the Next Level community so you don't miss all of the videos moving forward and some of the cool stuff we've got going on inside of that community that we don't do anywhere else.
If you're getting this on our podcast through just the audio format, you heard what to do. Get in the community. There's no cost, and there's a lot of cool resources we put there on a routine basis. Now, today's question is one that every organization runs into, whether they say it out loud or not. You know somebody that should grow.
Now what are you gonna do about it? Maybe you've just finished y- their review. Maybe they've just stepped into a new role. Maybe you've noticed they've got more in them than their current job is really asking for. In every one of those moments, the same thing tends to happen. Everybody agrees that growth matters, and then nothing happens.
We just think it matters. It's that untapped potential. Now, quick segue before I turn it over to Cindy. We are just a few weeks away from the formal release of Leveraging Leadership Growth: Strength through Great Professional Relationships, and in that book, it's different than the ones that I've done to this point.
It's one that's pretty personal, and it goes back through just what we're talking about today, the topic, and some of the mentors that I've had, that I've had to actively seek out and learn from and the lessons I learned from them. I tell people all the time, I'm not very smart. You know that. I'm a hillbilly.
I don't hide that. But man, I've had some good people that I've been able to learn from, and that's what that book really goes into. It's some of the amazing people that I've had in my life that I've been able to learn very much from. The dedication's pretty special because it's the most significant one that I've gotten to learn from.
With that said, Cindy, take it away Thanks, Wes. I've had some amazing people to learn from too, and I highly recommend Wes's book coming up. I have experienced, some of his learning and mentorship all over again. I know it'll serve you well. So- from our growth pillars that we talked about before, if you've been with us for our series on the People Optimization System, last week we asked whether you might be fixing the wrong pillar, and one of those five pillars is growth.
And the question there is simple: Does capacity in your organization grow on purpose or only when someone leaves? So today we're gonna take that down to ground level. Growing on purpose doesn't happen in a strategy document, it happens one person at a time with a plan that person can follow, and that's what we want to talk about.
Yep. And we've seen a pattern. It's a pattern that we've seen, we've lived over and over and over. Supervisor sits down for a review, they do a good job, they name a couple of strengths and a couple areas to work on. There's these boxes in many cases, maybe it's one through five, maybe it's meets requirements, exceeds requirements, needs improvement, whatever.
It's things we need to work on. The employee nods, and then the review goes in a folder, and the next time anybody looks at it is a year later in the next review window, and almost nothing has changed. It's not that anybody doesn't care, it's that the review tells you where somebody needs to grow, maybe, and nothing tells you how.
The supervisor's busy. They don't have a library of material on hand, and so that growth area, it just sits there. We don't necessarily take that action. I've lived it. I've seen it. for Cindy and I, early in our careers, it was pass or fail. We had to figure it out on our own, and we spent tens of thousands of dollars when it just as well been millions, 'cause we didn't have any money, looking for it on our own.
When I've been in organizations, when I've been in that HR role, I've seen it just as many times where we've identified opportunities. I've seen this thing called a nine-box review used where, gosh, I remember scoring in that nine box and saying, "Here's the potential that you've got," and then no clear direction on what to do.
I've seen cases where we've said, "Here's this technical training, here's this piece," without any way to measure is it being used, is it being translated into action, and so on And reviews are the obvious moment, and this time of year a lot of you are in the middle of them. But we really want people to hear that reviews are only for one of those moments.
There are three that we see over and over. The first is after re- a review. You already have the growth areas written down. A path is how you act on those. Yeah. And the second is when somebody steps into something new, maybe it's a new hire, maybe it's somebody promoted within. We've all seen that person get promoted because they were absolutely great at doing the work, and then nobody showed them how to lead the people through the work.
That next role, that responsibility they come into, the first 90 days in a new role is when that clear path matters the absolute most. The third is when you spot growth potential, like that potential that Wes talked about earlier. Honestly, that's something we should be doing all the time. When you see someone with more in them, the worst thing you can do is say, "Hey, just keep it up," and then wait.
A path tells them you see it, and it gives them somewhere to go with it. And notice that none of this requires a title. Some of the people with the most influence in your organizations don't lead anyone on paper. Growth applies to them, too. Gosh, I can think of years and years and years when I worked in behavior-based safety, some of the most influential people that I got to work with were a team of observers, had, had shop floor roles with zero supervisory responsibility.
And I was able to informally give them growth and give them access to growth, but it certainly wasn't scheduled, and it certainly wasn't a clear path or plan that tied back to anything structural
So one of the things that we've been able to do, we've been able to flip the coin on that. we've been able to build something, and we take what you already know about the person, and it's their review, their goals, and what you're seeing day to day. We sit down with you, and we agree on what are those growth areas?
What do they really need? Then we build that person their own path. It's typically 12, maybe as many as 15 lessons from our Leading at the Next Level library, a library we started in late 2018 that now has more than 200 hours of proprietary content that's not out of a box. It's based on the, the experiences Cindy and I have had in organizations in our own roles, but also with the organizations we've worked with.
So we've got, gosh, north of 60 years of collective experience that's built into these lessons, so we can tailor it and make sure the folks get what they need specific to what you've outlined for them. Now, every lesson ends with action steps. We've always done that, which are the things that they're gonna put into practice.
What did they learn? Not just things that they wanna think about. What are they gonna do to make sure that they're getting the juice from the s- the squeeze? Now, each lesson runs in the 45-minute to 55-minute range, and then the action steps filling it in, they're probably gonna have an hour in each one of those, and that's very doable across the course of a year.
That's why we're looking at about 12 to 15. Once a month, and then a couple extras if somebody wants to be an overachiever. The lessons stay in their library for good. When we build a custom path, that's part of what they've got. They can access it through our website, through our app, and it's tailored for your organization if you wanna build it that way.
And when that year is up, what we begin to do from there is build a new 12 to 15 lessons that we can add so they've got their next set of growth areas, and it can actually build on itself and not just stay stagnant Right? And here's where what we're most passionate about. Development plans don't usually fail on paper.
They fail in the next one-on-one when the supervisor doesn't know what to ask or how to follow up without micromanaging, and really getting to the point. So the action steps are built to be used in one-on-ones. The supervisor can see progress and have something specific to talk about. And we don't just hand over the path and disappear.
There's a kickoff call to agree on growth areas, a how to use it session once the path is live, and a check-in at 90 days to see what's working, and then to adjust along the way. I've worked with an operations director who, her and one of her managers, i- specifically, they had a challenge coming together and they didn't, coming out of that, they didn't feel like they had specific ground that they were really gaining.
They each would kind of beat around the bush, and they thought they understood each other, even though they were trying to work towards being direct. and I get it. So they both came out thinking, this is kind of clunky. I'm not sure if we're making progress." When they started a growth plan, when the manager started a growth plan with action steps after each lesson, then the manager started describing specific areas of growth and behavior change that she planned on accomplishing.
These were chosen by her. She took responsibility and accountability for it. The operations director completely backed her up, and they started having conversations- that were a guide for their one-on-ones that became not a difficult and unproductive conversation, but became a clear path of development.
They've gone from feeling unproductive to describing now of being energized by the next upcoming conversation and energized coming out of it. wherever you're accessing this, whether it's in the show notes or in a comment or something like that, we'll have a link to the page. And here's the reality, we built a sample path so people can see what this actually looks like in practice.
As Cindy and I talk through it, even if you've got this on video, you're hearing it, but you might not be connecting the dots. The one we built is for a fictional company. It's called Summit Ridge Supply Company. It's a fictional team member named Jordan Lee, and the reality is Jordan's path covers some of the most common growth areas that we see: managing time and priorities, clear communication, candid conversations, accountability, developing a new team member, and influence.
And you can look around at this yourself free for seven days on your computer or in your app. Start with lesson one and its action steps. That's really the heart of how this works. Now, let's talk about something that matters very much to both of us. Matter of fact, it was s- it matters so much, it's why I wrote What's Killing Your Profitability and why Cindy and I together are kind of bookending that idea with The People Advantage that we're starting to write right now.
I wanna talk with you about return, because that's what an owner needs, and an HR manager, someone in the leadership role, they've got to have an answer for. Now, I want you to think about what it costs you when someone's promoted and they struggle for a year because nobody ever prepared them. They were great at what they did, but they didn't have the tools necessarily to be great in that new role.
Or maybe when one of your best young people, they leave the organization because the only way up was out of the organization. They didn't have a clear growth path in front of y- them. You talked about growth, but you couldn't map it out on paper. They didn't have that clear picture in front of them. Both of those are extremely expensive problems, and most of us have been through it, and we've paid the cost.
Now, A path costs a fraction. One of the things that we've built, one of these paths, it costs a fraction of what you have when you lose that individual that's moved into the role and we haven't developed, the person that doesn't have a clear path to develop, or my goodness, the people that leave because the person that got promoted didn't have a clear path to develop and they just can't stand them.
And in each case, what we wanna do is be able to give you something most development budgets can't: a clear line from what you said in the review to what that person worked on, and to be able to identify tangible changes in that process. Now, we've all seen promotions where people didn't necessarily have the support they needed, where they were great at what they did.
I've seen them so many times in my career. I told you earlier that Cindy and I, each of us earlier in our careers, right after we got married, we had to figure it out on our own, and it was pass or fail, sink or swim, right? I've also seen the folks that get in those roles and struggle for years, and they're just miserable.
They'd have been much happier in the role they had, and you can never really go back and stay in the same organization. It's kind of pass, fail there, but we stay and we fail over and over and over, and it's hard to see. This is where we can fix that. We've developed a plan for doing exactly that If you're not sure where someone's growth areas are, or even your own, start with our free Growth Path Snapshot.
It takes just a few minutes and looks across eight growth areas. You could take it for yourself, for someone you lead, or for your team, and it tells you the right next step for each. If you took it for yourself, that points you toward our Leading at the Next Level membership. If you took it for someone that you lead or for your team, that's where a custom leadership path comes in.
Yep. Now, if you're developing anywhere from one to four people, you can get started right from that custom leadership path page. I put it in the comments. It'll be in the show notes, wherever you're acc- accessing this. On that, you can check out and you immediately get a way to book the kickoff call, and we can take it from there.
We walk through the process. We're able to help identify the things. And if you've got a team of five or more, we really need to have a conversation first because what we're gonna do is we're gonna build a process for your entire team. All of those details are on the page as well, but we need to talk a little bit more about it.
There's some s- set up on the front end. We wanna make sure it's a tailored experience. We build in your branding, we build in your logos. We're doing that for some close friends of ours right now to set some of those up. we've done a couple of these that haven't worked as well, but we're building it out, and we're really excited about what it's looking like.
And in one particular organization, we're setting up a custom, all the branding's in place, everything of their logos, and I think they're gonna have 20 to 25 different people that have their own custom paths in place where the ownership, the leadership team, has access to all of the results. They can see the progress.
They can see the answers. They can see the action steps, so they can be more intentional on a routine basis, on a monthly basis, if that's, a- as that's what they're setting them up to be, to make sure it's not just check the box, I did my homework. It's, how are you doing it? What's it looking like? How do we need to tweak it?
What support do you need along the way? So it's more of a conversation and it's collaboration rather than I put my answers on paper, and that's the end of it. Before we wrap up, two questions. First, who on your team has growth areas you already know about- written down in a review or maybe just in your head that nobody is actively working on?
And second, who have you noticed has more in them than their current role asks for? And if a name came to mind for either one of those, that's where to start. Absolutely. Now, everything that we've talked about here today is linked in the show notes. I mentioned some stuff in the comments if you're catching this on the Facebook or the LinkedIn channels or whatever, the free growth path snapshot, the seven-day sample plan, and a link to grab that time with me to talk about how we can put this in place for your team.
Now, the caveat that I always share, if you need continuing education credit, we've been approved recertification providers with the Society for Human Resource Management for a number of years, as well as the Human Resource Certification Institute. And we've got, put more than 200 lessons with approved credit hours into our Leading at the Next Level program.
We can hook you up with some access to that, a 14-day trial, and that you can kick the tires and really see what that's all about. Email us at admin@dove-development.net, and we can get you rolling with those to kinda try it out. Cindy, anything you'd like to add before we wind this down? Everyone, take the snapshot, think about that one name, and we look forward to seeing you back here.
Make it a great day, guys. Appreciate you being with us. God bless.
